Broadly Speaking, an Exploration of Bummers. But Also Not Bummers.
Oh there's violence in here, suicide, the lessons of Cape Fear. But also Foreigner and R.E.M.
Liz Miele on the podcast
In a whole bunch of ways, the interview I conducted with comedian Liz Miele for this week’s Depresh Mode was pretty easy. She’s smart as hell and gave thoughtful answers to all my questions. She’s a great storyteller and a nice person so the interview flowed nicely. Plus she’s funny, which always makes for a good interview. In some other ways, however, the interview was kind of tricky. At one point, just before the first break in the episode, Liz mentions having an unpleasant time with gymnastics coaches who would hit her during practices. As an aside, she says that she didn’t like getting hit at gymnastic since she already got hit at home. And when that comes up in an interview, you’re kind of at a crossroads as the one asking the questions.
I did follow up with it, asked her what that hitting at home was all about and she didn’t hesitate to answer. It was her mom, Liz said, who was often in the process of hitting Liz’s three younger siblings when Liz and her older sister would step in and try to absorb the blows. She says there was often objects being thrown across the room, leaving craters in the drywall. Liz says she understands that her mom was under a lot of stress and that she has a good relationship with her mom now (Liz is in her late 30’s now). To me, getting hit by one’s mom seems like a pretty big deal but I got the sense that it wasn’t that way for Liz, it was just something that happened in their home, among a bunch of other things happening in a family of seven. So I decided to leave it at the information she provided.
Another family fact, which Liz has talked about before on other platforms, is that both her grandmothers died by suicide when Liz’s parents were around 20 years old. This thing in common was part of what brought them together. This kind of shared trauma (not about the same event but very similar events) is something I’ve never run across before. I wonder how that intergenerational trauma lives on in the people who raised Liz and in Liz herself.
Anyway. There are also a lot of laughs in the interview!
On whether we need more pod episodes where things are going not so well for the subject
Hi everyone. I’ve been reading some criticism of the show on Facebook about how we don’t generally feature non-famous people or people for whom things are going poorly with mental health. Thanks for bringing this up and engaging in the topic.
It’s a tough one. And it’s one that I’ve struggled with as well. It brings up a kind of existential conundrum in making a show such as this one:
Generally, for first-person narrative episodes, I want to have people on the show who have a presence in the broader culture (a comedian, a musician, an expert, an author) so that the listening experience can be augmented by checking out their work, thus illustrating how a mental health issue intersects with what they do and what they make. Also, as has been stated, if it’s someone you may have heard of, downloads go up.
For those people to want to talk, there has generally been an arc to their story: they ran into trouble, things got worse, they found ways to address it. Importantly, rarely are they now just fine, it’s usually more a case of how they learned to manage the situation to make it better than it was.
As we know, there’s no one solution for mental health trouble that works for everyone. So the aggregate of the episodes is a kind of pasta-thrown-at-the-wall approach, where I hope the listener hears something that clicks for them. Something that they can try or that inspires a different idea that brings some relief.
There are a couple other reasons I keep coming back to the idea of stories of getting better. First, I like to hear them and I need them for myself. I need hope. Secondly, I think art should have hope to it. I remember an acting teacher I had long ago said they didn’t like the movie Cape Fear (1991) because its just a story about everything and everyone being awful. Not that things need happy endings but they all should have value and hope to them. That stayed with me.
At the same time, I understand that week after week of people successful enough to be in the public eye talking about how they’re doing better can feel frustrating to a listener who isn’t feeling better. Because sometimes you don’t want inspiration (or you’re all full up on inspiration and it isn’t really working), you really want commiseration. You want to know that other people have not only been where you are but they got stuck - or are stuck - just like you are.
I get that. And I agree. That story is part of the experience. That story should be told. I’m looking for ways to do that and I’m asking our producers to help in that way of thinking.
Where we go from here on this, I’m not sure. I can promise we’ll work on it and I’m sure we can do something, even though I don’t know what it will sound like just yet. I welcome suggestions.
Scientology accused of contributing to woman’s death
The Church of Scientology doesn’t believe in psychiatry or mental health care of any kind. In 1951, psychiatrists recommended that the church’s founder, L. Ron Hubbard, be committed to a mental hospital and this marked Hubbard turning hard against the practice of psychiatry.
The suit alleges that members of Scientology’s Sea Org workforce assigned handlers to stay with Mills at her downtown apartment around the clock beginning in February 2022. They coordinated her medical care with a Scientologist physician who misdiagnosed Mills with Lyme disease and cancer “while largely ignoring her very real psychosis and mental health crisis,” according to the lawsuit.
Scientology has strict beliefs against traditional mental health care and psychiatry, “thus foreclosing her from obtaining the exact treatment she needed,” the lawsuit says. Because Scientology and its workers assumed responsibility for Mills during this period and oversaw “highly questionable” alternative medical treatments, the family alleges the church is liable for her death.
Depressed people have higher body temperature
Don’t believe me? Just ask SCIENCE.
In a huge recent study, samples were collected from 20,880 participants over the course of seven months. The results: the saddies ran hotter than the normies. But does this mean that depression causes higher body temps? Or vice versa? Or what? Dunno:
As thorough as the study is – involving participants from 106 countries – it's not enough to show that a higher body temperature is causing depression, or indeed that depression is leading to the warming up of the body.
However, it does suggest that there's a connection here worth investigating. If something as simple as keeping cool could help tackle the symptoms of depression, then that has the potential to help millions of people around the world.
This made me feel.
Jenny Lawson on this week’s Sleeping with Celebrities
Humorist Jenny Lawson collects many things, including: devoted readers of her numerous essay anthologies, acclaim for her brilliant and hilarious writing, taxidermic mishaps, and also dolls, dolls, dolls. We concentrate on the dolls in this episode with more information than you ever sought about Blythe dolls, Pullip dolls, and ball jocket dolls. Find out which dolls are spooky and which are flat out evil. We even broach the subject of Hagen-Renaker glass animals, of which Jenny has billions. It’s a delightfully fun trip to dreamland.
I have so much appreciation for you , John. For your approach to the show/interviews and for your thoughtful and sincere response to the criticism/requests. Trust yourself as you consider ideas.